Leaving the “club” of entrepreneurship with Amanda Nowak
This is an interview with Amanda Nowak, an interior designer and business-owner-turned-coach who has started on a new venture: returning to a 9-5 job. I interviewed her on my podcast during our first season, but she recently started a new job in a role she probably didn’t picture herself returning to: not being the boss. What this change means for her and how she feels about returning to traditional employment fascinates me and I want to know more.
Rachael: You’ve done a lot! You started a successful business and ran that for a number of years. Can you tell us about that business and what came next?
Amanda Nowak: I was an interior designer who started a decor business. I started it out of the back bedroom of our little house, and we grew it to a 5,000 square foot warehouse with a team of 8. I mostly exited in 2023, and now do some consulting and digital products. Once I exited, I took a couple months off, and then started my coaching business. I didn’t grow the coaching business like I did the decor business, and it is more of a lifestyle business.
“4 Payments Of $497”
Rachael: You are coaching now, but you’re not one of those coaches. Talk to us about how you’ve stayed away from the “dark side”!
Amanda: I try to be as open and honest as possible. I’m an open book about my experiences. I don’t make big promises, I don’t portray myself to have a ‘perfect’ life. I also don’t follow any sales and marketing advice that doesn’t feel genuine to me (the mass-messaging people on LinkedIn telling them “I love what you’re doing in X industry.”) I just feel like being myself and transparent is the best way to attract the clients I want to work with.
Rachael: We’re talking about coaching, and I know we’ve talked about how it’s such a fraught industry. What messages from coaches have been helpful?
Amanda: When they give valuable, actionable information, like tips on how to move forward, how to make your life better. That making things better was possible.
Rachael: What messages have been harmful?
Amanda: Ones that simplified things and made it look like the answer was quick or easy, like, “Oh, you just need to pay 4 payments of $497…”
A “Regular Job”
Rachael: Can you walk me through the moment when a coach suggested that you *gasp* get to a “regular” job? What was your first reaction?
Amanda: My coach didn’t suggest I get a job, I went to him. I told him I was getting exhausted with all the sales and marketing that goes into getting clients in the coaching world, and it was burning me out (because that part is NOT my zone of genius). I was really wanting to just put my head down and do work, so I asked if he knew of anyone looking for help-part time, in a contract capacity, etc. And then he told me he had a client who was looking for a right-hand person to help them with systems and processes who owned a company in the construction industry-which was a perfect fit for me!
Rachael: What was that transition like, going back to 9-5?
Amanda: It was actually WAY more seamless than I thought! The whole week before I started, I kept being like, “This is my last day I can have a super slow morning,” or, “This is the last week I’m going to be the one to take the dog to the vet because I have the more flexible schedule.” But I honestly don’t miss it, because at the end of the day at my job…I’m done! I can shut my brain off and not think about work until the next morning. And I was just ready to put my head down and WORK and not have to think about pushing the sales and marketing boulder up the hill.
Rachael: That actually sounds really freeing in a lot of ways. What’s interesting is how being the boss is often positioned as the “freeing” option as compared to having a boss. How did you deal with feeling exhausted by running a company when you owned your design business?
Scaling, Growing, Burnout
Amanda: I had hit some terrible burnout in my decor business while I was scaling. My coaches helped me get through it, and I saw so many women going through the same things I was and them feeling so alone. I saw there was a need for support amongst burnt out women. When my engagement ended with my coach, she asked me to facilitate some workshops for her, and I did that “on the side” while I was running my decor company. And the more I got into coaching, the more I realized I really loved it. And I saw an opportunity to help all of those struggling women.
Rachael: What were the earliest signs of burnout that you noticed?
Amanda: It creeped up underneath the regular stress of owning a scaling business, so I only can see it now looking back. But I would say the earliest sign I had was a physical one: it was what I know now to be extreme anxiety. It felt like I had a motor in my chest that wouldn’t stop. Even when I sat down at home at the end of the day, it was still whirring. I had started having a daily glass of wine when I got home from the office, because it was the only thing that would slow the motor down—even temporarily. I eventually saw a doctor and addressed it, but it was definitely the first sign.
Leaving “The Club”
Rachael: Did you ever feel like employment was framed as “failure” or that only special or unique people pursue entrepreneurship?
Amanda: Yes! Entrepreneurship does feel like a club that other entrepreneurs don’t want you to leave. And I think some see going back to employment as meaning you couldn’t make it as an entrepreneur, and it’s shameful to leave the ‘club’. Entrepreneurship is a TON of work, and you will never understand how much work it is until you do it. I don’t have kids, but I imagine it’s how people say you know beforehand becoming a parent is hard, but you have no idea how hard until you’re actually in it. So I do think it takes a special type of person to sustain entrepreneurship for any meaningful amount of time, and it’s totally acceptable if you realize one day that you’d just like to do a single role instead of the 30 that entrepreneurship requires.
Rachael: It’s exactly like that: it feels like there’s a secret club we’re all a part of, but you really have no idea how hard it will be until you’re in it. What made you decide to transition from your business to coaching?
Amanda: I realized design just didn’t light me up anymore. And through a coaching session with my coach, I realized the only reason I was still running the decor company was because I didn’t want to let anyone down: my clients, my team. I wasn’t even in the equation! The final nail in the coffin was that lease on our space was almost up, and I was going to move locations—but the lease kept getting delayed. And delayed. And delayed. And I realized the universe was pushing back, and that maybe it was time to just be done.
Rachael: What part of the “founder identity” was hardest to set down?
Amanda: I guess I don’t feel like I’ve set down my founder identity since I’m still running my [coaching] business, just in a pared-down capacity. But the reactions I get from other entrepreneurs when I tell them I took on a full time role is very interesting. It’s like they’re disappointed that I’m going back to a full time role. But I will say I do miss the extreme flexibility that came with entrepreneurship, but at this point in my life I’m also ok with a little more external structure!
Rachael: Do you think you’ll go back to business ownership one day?
Amanda: I honestly can’t say. I really like this role I’m in, and it’s nice being able to still do coaching in a pared down capacity. So this current mix may fulfill me until retirement. I think it’s ok to think of employment and entrepreneurship as seasons in our life. Maybe full-time entrepreneurship was a 13-year season that I made the most of, and that I may never do again. Or, maybe I’ll realize at some point in the future that the full-time employment world isn’t for me, and that I’ll go back to full time entrepreneurship. Only time will tell!
Thank you to Emily Oberman of Imaginary Friends for her help with this article.
